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Build talk:W/Rt Devastating Hammer Warrior
Jesus, Eronth, I was doing the same thing at the exact same time doh! [[GW:User:Readem|'Readem']] ([[GW:User talk:Readem|''talk]]* ) 00:04, 19 May 2007 (CEST) : I kinda figured that would happen. : ) Eronth 00:05, 19 May 2007 (CEST) Multiple Hammer Meta : Why are there 3 hammer wars in the meta, cant we just make 1 build called "hammer war" leave the elite as optional and list the optional as dev hammer/earthshaker/magehunter... since thier all the same build with essentially the same funcnality, same equips etc 19:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC) Omigawa Notes Standard hammer warrior. This build is good. :) Checked and Reviewed For Viability. [[User:Readem|'Readem']] (''talk''* ) 16:55, 14 June 2007 (EDT) Flail Why is flail not even a variant? --Edru viransu 07:30, 17 June 2007 (EDT) well it is in the Prophecies only section... Build up date i think that the build should be change to as it seams like a more current dev hammer.. prof=Warrior/Any HammerMastery=12+1+2 Strength=9+1 Tactics=9+1HammerBlowBlowBlowFlailChargeSignetSignet/build Champion 17:08, 12 August 2007 (CEST) :Fierce Blow is terrible. -Auron 07:02, 19 August 2007 (CEST) ::That's the only thing you have to say about that build? How about 'Tactics is terrible'?-- 12:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC) :::Kinda late but..Tactics is terrible. 01:50, September 4, 2009 (UTC) Heavy Blow? Any reason to run Dev Hammer without Heavy Blow in main bar? — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 06:58, 19 August 2007 (CEST) :Wouldn't you rather a bar like this with H-Blow? Optional being Bull's (my pref) or PS? - Krowman 07:04, 19 August 2007 (CEST) ::I ran a bar quite like that just yesterday in HA, did quite well - however, Enraging Charge is not needed. I used Shock instead, much more utility tbh (and with a furious hammer, building adren is no problem - getting an opportunity to unleash it is always the hard part). -Auron 07:07, 19 August 2007 (CEST) :More like any reason to run Heavy Blow instead of Hammer Bash, imo? --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']] 07:12, 19 August 2007 (CEST) ::Knock lock. Bull's -> Dev -> HB, and your target is grounded for 6 seconds. - Krowman 07:14, 19 August 2007 (CEST) :::Same thing both ways Krowman :P. I would still go bash, merely because of RC Meta. [[User:Readem|'Readem']] (''talk''* ) 07:22, 19 August 2007 (CEST) ::::D'oh! Sorry dude, thought you were referring to Bash as the skill already in the build, as to counter Rapta's point. But yeah, could go both ways. My phail. >.< - Krowman 07:26, 19 August 2007 (CEST) :::That's 9 seconds of knocklock, btw. Base KD time = 2 sec + 1 from stonefists = 3. 3*3 = 9 --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']] 07:27, 19 August 2007 (CEST) ::::Heavy blow costs less Adrenaline and deals more damage. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 16:59, 24 August 2007 (CEST) :::::I'd run Heavy in RA/TA/AB where there's less risk of weakness getting drawed/RCed/etc, and it's not as big a deal if you otherwise have to switch targets and can't KD until you charge deva hammer back up. However, in more serious pvp, you want to be able to safely change targets and minimally rely on conditions(which is why mighty blow > fierce blow). --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 22:10, 24 August 2007 (CEST) ::::::I agree entirely with Edru. [[User:Readem|'Readem']] (''talk''* ) 23:21, 24 August 2007 (CEST) :::::::Meh, it's also because you kd other targets too then. Knocklocks kinda is kinda meh atm, you got Aura on both monks alot. - [[User:Unexist|'Unexist']] 08:05, 12 January 2008 (EST) Everyone runs Heavy. That and, without it no real reason to run this instead of Earthshaker. — [[User:Tycn|'Tycn']] (''talk''* ) 02:01, 7 December 2007 (CET) :1 less adr. And yes, hammer elites just all happen to fail and need updates. - [[User:Unexist|'Unexist']] 07:59, 12 January 2008 (EST) Heal sig? Heal Sig on Hammers seems to have dropped out of the meta(and heal sig elsewhere generally seems to be becoming less popular), so perhaps it should be replaced with something? --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 00:27, 7 September 2007 (CEST) :I'm probably going to replace Heal Sig with Enraging sometimes in the next few days, if no one QQs. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 02:11, 10 September 2007 (CEST) Fragile in RA? I ran this build through a couple of RA battles where there were no monks. This build gets quite fragile in such a situation; I was cripped by rangers and got shot to hell, or got something like ele blindspammers, and ofcourse hexes. It ca do the damage and all, but it's gotta be quick because you won't live long against anything. Revisit RA tag? 195.241.221.246 17:36, 29 December 2007 (EST) :It's not really designed for RA... ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 17:39, 29 December 2007 (EST) ::I guess we should remove the RA tag then.. [[User:Viet| viзти]][[User talk:Viet|'αмзѕз']] 17:41, 29 December 2007 (EST) ::It would be bad if it was. That said, play well and this will do well in RA. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 17:41, 29 December 2007 (EST) :::Did some more RA and TA with this.. TA is great but for RA it's just not right because of what i said earlier. There is no playing well if you are crippled, blinded and have conjure nightmare-style hexes on you. I vote remove RA tag 195.241.221.246 05:37, 30 December 2007 (EST) ::::You're a hammer warrior, you shouldn't be letting people put that sort of stuff on you. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 09:35, 30 December 2007 (EST) ::::: If I could only decide what people were allowed to do against me.. It's not that this is a bad build if you get close, but when I am focussing on one target and get raped by conditions/hexes thers no way to 'allow' it or not, because you will have to commit and get close to the enemy at some point. Use this in TA, GvG, whatever you're the man to be afraid of. In RA you should be afraid of other people! I'm not going to discuss this any further, I said what I thought and it's up to you guys what you wanna do with it. Amen. 195.241.221.246 04:39, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::Hammer warriors are great precisely because everything that the enemy team does except for stances(other than frenzy) and shouts is completely preventable by a hammer warrior. Enemy warrior killing your teammates? Your fault for not linebacking well enough. Enemy BSurge blinding you? Your fault for not KDing him before he can reapply after it wears off(clarity rune very helpful in RA) and killing him. Getting hexed? Your fault for not KDing and killing him before he can get enough hexes to really shut you down on you. Of course, you can't singlehandedly shutdown the entire enemy team, but nothing can. Simply, shutdown the biggest threat to your functioning(varies based on both your team and the enemy team, for example, a BSurge isn't much of a threat to a war's functioning in RA if that war's got a monk, but otherwise, he'll usually be the highest priority) and hope your team can actually do something, too. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 17:00, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::::what if they have a bsurge AND a hexer? Bob fregman 18:10, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::::Then you lol because they're focusing 2 of their low dmg chars on just you, while the rest of your team is beating their asses <3 — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 18:15, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::::Like I said, you can't shutdown the entire enemy team. Go after the BSurge btw. If you can drop him quick enough you might be able to do something against the hexer. In situations like that, you really just have to hope that someone on your team doesn't suck, and like skakid says, the enemy team is essentially taking two of their chars out of the game to keep you out of the game. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 18:41, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::::::IMO, you just need to bring the new Lion's Comfort instead of ECharge and you've got an imba RA build. It provides the same adren gain at 13 strength, and is easily repeatable (with Heavy Blow, you can use it about every ~8-10 seconds, which is around twice as fast as ECharge). Plus, you know, it heals you. Jaigoda 01:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT) :::::::::Anybody who has played a good deal of RA will tell you that sometimes you're just f***ed. RA is like poker, you're dealt your hand when you press Enter Battle and you have to play the best you can. To hear someone say "well, it's your fault for not killing the bsurge ele or the hexer" made me chuckle. Good luck building the adrenalin you need to do your kd chain when you're blinded, granted that EC helps a bit with that hopefully. A good necro will also have you hexed up with faintheartedness and weakness the whole time, so even if you do get your kd chain started your timing will be a bit off and your "spike" will fall well short of the damage needed to kill anybody with a decent ammount of health. Granted you can try to spike an already hurt target, and that could work, but if there is no such target... hit the monk and hope your teammates do something? In RA that's hoping for a lot lol. Given enough time I have no doubts a good hammer warrior could get his chain off on a bsurge ele or a necro, maybe even killing them, but the problem is unless your team is good and can cover for you while you're rendered useless (again, remember this is RA we're talking about...), you will be dead long before that opportunity ever arrives. On a parting note, even subpar eles and hexers are capable of shutting down a warrior and still switching to other targets. A bsurge ele has to keep a closer eye, but a necro only has to pay attention to you every 20 seconds or so if you don't have a monk. Grats if you can get two guys on the other team to focus on you exclusively, but even then there is a good chance that the rest of your team will be unable to capitalize on it. Zephyr Cloud 14:08, 4 April 2008 (EDT) Wait i got a question... what happens when a ranger uses Apply Posion and Pin Down on you... you just kinda sit there and die? No defence? no self heal? dead men deal no dmg... 68.240.238.0 01:17, 12 January 2008 (EST)Auron Bushi :You kite the hell out of the next one. --71.229 02:54, 12 January 2008 (EST) ::You have monks u fags. And a skill monk skill called Rc. Btw, pin down is baed. - [[User:Unexist|'Unexist']] 08:01, 12 January 2008 (EST) :::RA :::RC :::lol wut --71.229 22:51, 12 January 2008 (EST) raise strength to 14 and lower hammer mastery to 13 to make enraging charge give 4 strikes of adren, its only one point difference. also needs self heal. I Am Jebus 13:50, 27 January 2008 (EST) :The few % damage is still better than the adrenaline. Self heals are bad. Mike Tycn(punch ) 04:07, 29 January 2008 (EST) Hammer bash Is very epic, better then heavy tbh, unconditional on whoever, target often gets prot to prevent the second knockdown anyway... Fishy Moo 03:58, 29 January 2008 (EST) :Since it's capitalising on the weakness, imo Heavy should stay standard. Bash is in variants anyway. Mike Tycn(punch ) 04:07, 29 January 2008 (EST) ::true, bash is in variant... but tbh targets just get block proted anyway be4 heavy blow hits. Fishy Moo 09:42, 29 January 2008 (EST) :::Bash is a good skill. Heavy Blow is a bad skill. I want consensus to be reached b4 i change it.--Dark0805(Rant/ ) 08:55, 12 February 2008 (EST) ::::I have reverted the change. No consensus have been reached regarding swapping out Heavy Blow for Hammer Bash. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue/ /complain) 11:30, 15 February 2008 (EST) +dmg. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 02:24, 17 February 2008 (EST) I vote for Hammer Bash. Unconditional KD. Both work, though. Zuranthium 02:25, 17 February 2008 (EST) :I'd take Bash for GvG, Blow for arenas. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 02:32, 17 February 2008 (EST) ::Agreed with Skakid. The Weakness condition is easily met in low-tier PvP, while Bash is more likely to be effective in GvG. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue/ /complain) 04:57, 17 February 2008 (EST) :::I'd take bash for both, as you need to unconditionally kd rez sigs @ ra. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 13:19, 3 May 2008 (EDT) I vote make it optional. Let people decide what to take, since both work. Rickyvantof 14:01, 17 February 2008 (EST) I hate heavy blow with a passion. They're either dead, or weakness removed by the time they stand up for heavy, and now heavy does nothing. Bash at least means you can go hit an aegis or lineback or just plain lol at 3s kd. Rawrawr 12:49, 14 March 2008 (EDT) :No point running Dev Hammer w/o Heavy Blow with the new buffed Magehunters. Moush 04:07, 16 March 2008 (EDT) ::NO point running Dev Hammer with Heavy Blow now that Magehunter's is around, either. — [[User:Edru viransu|'Edru']]/[[User talk:Edru viransu|'QQ']] 14:17, 16 March 2008 (EDT) :::Yeah, IMO they mostly even out. The extra 1 adren on HBash really won't make much of a difference since they effectively cost as much as your highest-costing adren skill (Dev Hammer in this case), as you'll want to unload all/most of your adren skills before losing all of your adrenaline. So the main differences between the two are that HBash is unconditional (++ in GvG since things get removed quickly) and that HBlow does a bit of +damage (+ in any place else that doesn't remove conditions quickly and efficiently). It's really a matter of where you are and what your preference is. Jaigoda 02:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT) RA Tag For RA, would this be more successful since it adds in a condition removal to deal with blind and what not? From left to right you will kill almost any caster. It's pretty close to some of the earlier mentioned builds, but takes on a different spin. prof=Warrior/Monk HammerMastery=12+1+2 Strength=11 Prot=6 HammerFlailBlowBlowBlowTouchChargeSignet/build BTW, i'm not sure those attributes add up correctly. --Rach 02:09, 14 July 2008 (EDT) :That looks viable for AB and RA, except for the major rune. The PvX community hates any runes that take health away.--70.69.87.23 12:48, 22 July 2008 (EDT) :: I would use Antidote Signet instead of Mending Touch. Only 4 seconds recharge, no energy cost and no attribute, but slightly longer activation time (1 second). Lluvia 10:33, 1 August 2008 (EDT) :::Fierce Blow is trash. Take Antidote over Mend Touch as well. Zuranthium 19:17, 3 August 2008 (EDT) ::::How is fierce blow trash? In RA and AB there has to be a second monk to remove the weakness, and you cover it up really fast, how many attack skills do +40 damage anyways? It sounds like common PvX talk, where the user repeats what he hears from others without understanding why... Antidote signet is a good choice because it can remove blind no matter where it is in your condition stack. In AB lion's comfort would be a nice last skill, but that would mean you would have to go back to mending touch. --Rach 16:10, 13 August 2008 (EDT) :::::It's trash because it's occupying the slot that should be filled by Bull's Strike. That's the conventional higher-end-arena wisdom though, and damage wins RA, so /shrug. --71.229 05:02, 18 August 2008 (EDT) :::::Fierce Blow adds nice damage, but loses utility. Your call. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (talk/ /complain) 05:36, 18 August 2008 (EDT) ::::::Actually mighty blow would be a better choice now that i think about it, same max damage and not conditional, also to charge the chain you need 7 adrenaline anyways. --Rach 14:26, 18 August 2008 (EDT) looking for people to rate Build: W/P Defying Spear Chargersee others thoughts —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Abc9o ( ) }. ::::::actually KD's win RA. ups, you disabled 25% of their team for 6-9 seconds? gg. either way, bull's strike>fierce blow. anywhere. i can't believe that isn't taught to children at birth 71.230.145.170 02:45, 26 September 2008 (EDT) Will it be any good? ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 15:32, 13 November 2008 (EST) :Lift hammer is the manliest build in the game. --''Ojamo'' (>.<( ''' 15:38, 13 November 2008 (EST) ::Lift Hammer is the single strongest bad build in the game. --Frosty 16:11, 13 November 2008 (EST) :::But it pwns bad shadow form RA scrubs. -- Jebuscontests ::::Good luck knocking down someone in shadowform. --Frosty 16:18, 13 November 2008 (EST) :::::Jebus, you're dumb. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ 16:36, 13 November 2008 (EST) ::::::Truer words were never spoken. Brandnew. 16:46, 13 November 2008 (EST) :::::::ERF SHAKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUR --''Ojamo'' '(>.<( ' 16:58, 13 November 2008 (EST) ::::::::Would work on we hammer-- 22:30, 19 November 2008 (EST) :::::::::Jebus, you're dumb. -- Jebuscontests 22:43, 19 November 2008 (EST) ::::::::::And scitso.--[[User:Ikimono|'Ikimono'I know Paragons. Listen Padowan]] 04:22, 26 December 2008 (EST) another version ? prof=Warrior/Any HammerMastery=12+1+2 Strength=12+2HammerBlowBashBlowStrikeFlailChargeSignet/build pretty straight forward if you know how to 1/4 knock. --Lusciious 04:12, 12 February 2009 (EST) :already been suggested several times, but fierce blow isn't really needed as badly as utility. Why did you pick prot strike over bull's? (→18:09, 11 February 2009 - ) usually a spike like that would take away about 90-95% of their HP. the reason i took prot strike instead is because of personal preference. without Rush, you wont be able to KD with bulls much. i just love it after you use crushing blow and his hp is like 5% left and less than a second later dead, from prot strike. its just fun :)--Lusciious 04:12, 12 February 2009 (EST) :You use bstrike to qknock them for 9 seconds or more--Relyk 04:18, 12 February 2009 (EST) :Works better with Magebane Is Dshot seriously run on Devastating Hammer bars? :> -[[User:StarSeeker|'''Star]][[User talk:StarSeeker|'Seeker']] 13:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC) :DShot is good on any bar :D --'-Chaos-' 13:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC) Variation In RA, this build has a nice variation with Tigers, Mokele, and lions :Wooh, somebody saw my build. Howlinghobo 12:16, 5 April 2009 (UTC) Merge Why not merge the three meta hammer builds (ES, Dev and MS) into one generic hammer build with three options for the elite. Saves some space and makes it easier to keep meta gear up to date. (sry forgot to sign) -- 13:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC) :Nop. Misery Says Moo 13:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC) ::Just wondering, why exactly shouldn't MS and DH be merged? The ranger argument doesn't really apply either because these actually play similar roles. Someone mind explaining this to me? --JaiGoesMonksassin 20:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC) :::Magehunters is only run in spikes where you absolutely need to KD the prot on the spike. DH is an all purpose elite, more commonly found in splits and such--Goldenstar 20:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC) ::::Mmm, okay. I haven't been around the GvG meta for close to a year now, so thanks for telling me that. --JaiGoesMonksassin 21:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC) Remove CM Tag because i have yet to see a warrior make a difference in jade quarry...because A. you can't KD a turtle and B. at best they distract the quarries for a whopping 8 seconds. ~Flesh Atrophy~"I R MudKipZ" 14:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC) :you go for enemy cappers, obviously. --Mafaraxas 15:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC) :: :Yes you can! Brandnew 15:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC) :1 second xtra KD worth 15 energy?~Flesh Atrophy~"Real Sins Play Mesmer" 13:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC) ::Stonefist + Earthbind don't stack. --Mafaraxas 13:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC) :::Earthbind is bugged and makes it so un-knockable things get, knocked down! --Frosty Mc Admin 13:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC) ::time for monks to bring aura of stability to CM ^^(i didn't know that btw frosty)~Flesh Atrophy~"Real Sins Play Mesmer" 14:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC) :::It's meant to work in Mallyx, or some un-knockable boss. --Frosty Mc Admin 14:56, 24 June 2009 (UTC) or pew pew ··· Danny Does 16:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC) that 2nd one kinda removes the warrior from it, with the exception of stonefist's~Flesh Atrophy~"Real Sins Play Mesmer" 16:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC) :wot? i was just showing how to abuse Earthbind with Turtles, tbh. ··· Danny Does 17:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC) my mistake ^^~Flesh Atrophy~"Real Sins Play Mesmer" 03:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Wild Throw Added it as a variant because Mr Kisses of Yummy used it throughout the tourney and was dominating Balanced stance after Balanced stance monk. Fun to watch(timcago 02:51, 28 June 2009 (UTC)). Who the fuck is mr kisses neway? :Probably some top gvg guy. Wild Throw is brave as fuck btw. Life 05:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC) ::Wild throw isn't just brave its really effective. Drahgal Meir 06:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC) :::Not much else to do with a secondary, anyway. ··· Danny Does 15:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Sand Shards Added as optional. Note that the description is outdated. Its strong btwRxh 10:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :We're not retarded what comes to skill functions. --'-Chaos-' 05:56, 27 August 2009 (UTC) ::i'm retarded. — μαφλεσ 04:13, September 4, 2009 (UTC) :::Screencapped.--[[User:Ikimono1|'Ikimono'"Mutton Chop Man"]] 05:45, September 4, 2009 (UTC) ::::you're retarded. — μαφλεσ 07:10, September 4, 2009 (UTC) ::::: <;O --[[User:Ikimono1|'Ikimono'"Mutton Chop Man"]] 12:25, September 4, 2009 (UTC) :::tbh I had a hunch that I should highlight the "what comes to skill functions" part and not the "not". --'-Chaos-' 10:21, September 4, 2009 (UTC) Merge with magehunter warrior? as a General Hammer warrior? -- 18:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :No, we've decided to separate builds like this. --'-Chaos- (moo) '-- 19:13, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :READ. THE FUCKING. PAGE. is for Raine, etc. 12:26, January 26, 2010 (UTC) :: is for RAGE!!! C:\PvX>Abort, Retry, Panic? 12:42, January 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I think you left a Corsiva tag open. Also, people who don't do their homework make me sad. :\ ''is for Raine, etc. 18:59, March 1, 2010 (UTC) Yeti Smash Needs to be a variant for hammer bash? does the same thing, with 1 adren more and 1s actiavtion. Under flail, u can use dev hammer hit twice then yeti, and get a certain Qknock as under flail yeti hits 0.1s after the 1st KD ends. PVX-Zuko 13:37, March 1, 2010 (UTC) :Point less. No +damage like heavy blow and no benefit--TahiriVeila 13:43, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::The benefit is randomly knockdowning surrounding people! :> --''Chaos?'' -- 15:41, March 1, 2010 (UTC) :::Just tested, while it hits all aqdjacent foes it only knocks down foes suffering from a condition. So only your target gets knocked unless you're running super heavy condition pressure or something. It might be useful in a specialized team build for tombs, but otherwise it's not worth listing--TahiriVeila 18:20, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::::Splinter Weapon sounds useful again. :> -- Big McStrongfist 18:21, March 1, 2010 (UTC) :::::Rodgort's + Yeti Smash = ??? is for Raine, etc. 18:56, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Might as well run earth shaker then, have the warrior calling spikes and shit. Dual ES is hawt anyway. -- Big McStrongfist 19:17, March 1, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Dual ES dual SH was my first halls win as caller. =3 is for Raine, etc. 19:58, March 1, 2010 (UTC)'' ::::yeti smash is awesome ifn gvg too, dunno what ur on about. Gringo 14:34, March 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::It's only useful for a training wheel qknock + daze, it's pretty rare that you catch two people out of position enough that you knock both, unless they're body blocking. That being said it's a decent variant but it's not all that great--TahiriVeila 14:11, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::what daze? and getting an extra hit in before they stand up and still qknocking them is like an extra 80 damage, and its hardly rare to catch people out of position, imagine how many times youve seen multiple people get hit by rodgorts. Gringo 16:20, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::and someone fix there fucking sig. 03:09, March 20, 2010 (UTC) new mainbar? saw this in pretty much every gvg in the last weeks Illoyon 23:44, May 1, 2010 (UTC) :Training wheels qknock is a variant. Standard bar should be left alone--TahiriVeila 00:13, May 2, 2010 (UTC) ::do you forget that it adds an extra hammer attack per chain, its aoe, and you build the adrenaline anyways? 80% of people run it over bash these days, bash should be the one varianted. Gringo 02:19, May 2, 2010 (UTC) :::i think someone should change the mainbar...because it does not represent the current meta. Everyone run Yeti Smash + Belly or Overbearing Smash today...it should be at least on optional part at the top of the page.Illoyon 17:34, May 10, 2010 (UTC) Uhm, well I made it all optional. However does Dev -> Flail -> Crushing -> Belly -> Yeti give a qknock? Since Belly Smash is 1 sec activation. Or do you have to qstep/time it? --Frosty 17:47, May 10, 2010 (UTC) :no but its easier to time the second kd, because you dont have to wait as long as before.Illoyon 22:03, May 10, 2010 (UTC) ::Me thinks that requiring a condition to achieve the kd will always make it second best when compared to Bash (which is 100% unconditional). --BlazingBurdy 08:31, July 19, 2010 (UTC) dshot optional hurr.. Ocirne23 15:55, July 14, 2010 (UTC) :if wild throw's an optional, why not dshot? [[User:MrMetalFLower|'MrMetal']]FLower 03:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Because no one runs it seriously and it's not very good. --Lemming 05:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Longbows There's a reason I removed it from the article the first time - it's nice to have one in theory, but it's almost completely useless in practice. --Lemming 02:38, September 4, 2010 (UTC) what if.... prof=Warrior/Any HammerMastery=12+1+1 Strength=9+1 dagger=9HammerBlowBashLotus Strikeof the OxFlailChargeSignet/build Gives up bulls strike for another hard KD that does not make you lose all adren. It can quarterknock multiple times. Ask yourself, what KD is more conditional, Bulls or HoTO. The best thing is that Devhammer and Hbash are charged before the KD from HoTO ends. 10:23, September 11, 2010 (UTC) I think Yes i do, i think that maybe warriors cunning should be an optional, ive been running it with succes. It really helps when a monk activates his bonetti just to keep him on the floor and kill his team.-- 22:19, September 30, 2010 (UTC) i see since ive been perma'd, you guys fucking suck at maintaining shit on this site. look at build right now on the main bar. fucking sad -angelus